Saturday, November 1, 2008


Well everyone, I FINALLY got the cops called on me!

It all started with getting off of work and then heading up north to go to N. County Fair to get some badly needed work shoes. Per my usual routine, I strapped Tracker into her rightful spot and waltzed on through the mall. Half way to my destination (Payless) I encountered a fairly cute Israeli girl trying to sell me some Dead Sea lotions or something of that nature and spent 10 minutes entertaining her marketing endeavors. She either did not notice I was packing or did not care.

Heading into Payless I asked the cashier where I might find Safe-T-Step shoes and she directed me to the back wall. As I selected a pair of shoes to try on and sat down I looked out of the corner of my eye and saw several security guards grouping outside the door, to which I snickered to myself and proceeded to try on shoes.

About 10 seconds later, 4 security guards surrounded me and the head honcho began to ask me questions. Now, Liberty1, please don't beat (much less pistol whip) me for this but I don't have my freaking tape recorder yet so I didn't get the conversation! I will list what questions I can remember that they asked me and list my responses.

-Is that real? -Yes
-Are you an LEO? -Nope
-Do you have a license for that? -As long as I am not concealing it, I am unloaded and not within 1000' of a school it is perfectly legal.
-Do you have any bullets on you? -5 in a speedloader in my left pocket
-I think that is illegal -Nope, its not.
-Is that a knife? -Yes, it is
-Geez, do you always shop like that? -Not always, though I always have a knife with me
-What are you carrying that for? -Protection

As I sat there, holding a size 12 shoe with both of my hands, the head guy kept telling me to not make any sudden movements "for our safety" and to remain seated, etc. Apparently, telling someone that 5 times doesn't normally sink in because he kept repeating it.

Meanwhile, the cops were called in and were on their way. While waiting (15 minutes I think) I discussed the military jobs of the leader and one of his lackeys (both were ex-Marines), legalities of open carry and other such topics. The leader kept saying that he appreciated my cooperation and thanked me for my understanding of the situation and how I just can't be doing this now, given the day and age, etc. He did mention one recent shooting in Arkansas or something and people being nervous about it, to which I asked "A gun-free zone, I presume?" He said he didn't know... it probably was.

After 15 or so minutes and multiple directions for the police to arrive, two officers showed up. I greeted them and they withdrew the Tracker and my knife and escorted me outside. I offered them the opportunity to remove my speedloader but the cop said that I could keep it since I would be better off throwing it at someone at this point.

Here is the conversation that I had with the one officer to my left as I walked out of the mall to the parking lot.

-Him: Do you have a license for this?
-Me: No, I do not need a license for open carry. As long as I am not within 1000' of a school, I am not concealing the firearm and I am unloaded I am perfectly legal in carrying my weapon.

Furthermore, I believe that a memo was released to the Escondido PD about the legality of open carry, if I am not mistaken.

-Him: Ok, Ok. COuld you please explain to me then how the gun was in your pocket?
-Me: The gun was not in any pocket, it was in the holster just as you guys saw it the first time. If I may, may I turn and show you the holster? *Turn and show holster, hands in the air*
-Him: Ok, lets go outside right now. I didn't know that you had a holster on.

So we get outside and I sit down on the curb and they ask me my name, DOB, address and phone number. They ask me if I have any felonies and if the gun is registered to me, to which I reply "no" and "yes", respectively. One officer ran my gun in the computer and one talked with me and another stood to my right. The one in front of me taking my name down and whatnot chatted with me about guns and stuff. I told him about my blog and he wrote it down for future reference and I told the other two cops about it as well. Two of the three cops made it a point to tell me that they are pro-2nd amendment and that they understood why I am doing what I am doing and they mentioned how hard it was to get a CCW permit. I told them I wanted one but that I wasn't a "butt buddy" with the sheriff nor was I a jeweler. I also told them about the OC lunches and the difference in LEO reactions to the first and second ones and they had a good chuckle about it.

About 15 minutes after I was taken outside I was given my gun back and I was allowed to reholster it. The policemen said that I was perfectly legal and everything was kosher and it was now between mall security and myself. Turning to the head of security he said that he appreciated my understanding and hoped that I was treated in a professional manner but the mall can't allow me to have a gun, particularly when children are 10' away. I told him that I understand but that I am not the guy that is trying to cause harm to anyone, I am the guy trying to prevent it. He seemed to have written me off over it. With that, I shook everyone's hand and walked around the mall parking lot to secure my weapon and leave for home.

All in all, it was a decent experience. I wasn't even really nervous at all and if I was nervous it was faaar less than the first few times I OC'd. So now, I guess I am just going to have to go with a really BIG knife or my tomahawk.

A few things I learned.

-Carry at least one brochure.
-Carry and use the tape recorder (Liberty1, it is next on my shopping list, I swear!)
-Mall security, even when ex-military, don't know a lot of laws. (Not surprised, but still...)

Questions I have to ask...
1) The cops took about 20min to get to where I was at, which was about 70' from an entrance. WTF would have happened if I were a determined criminal?
2) What is mall security going to do about someone that is armed and intent on killing people? Beg them to death?
3) Why are law-abiding citizens, such as myself, such a rampant threat to mall security? No parents were freaking out nor were kids scared, it was the security detail that was all hot and bothered over it!

Phew! Glad this writeup is over. Of course, if you guys have questions or whatever feel free to comment either here or on and I will respond to them!



P.S. I have the phone number of the head of security for those that care to have it.... ;)


Cornfed Gunner said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Cornfed Gunner said...

Just because you can do something doesnt mean you should. You seem like someone who is doing something just to antogonize both law enforcement and the anti gunners. I find it both humorous and quite sad that you see to yourself as some holy crusader for our gun rights when in reality, your just poke the drowsy bear with a stick.
So your carrying in the mall for protection? Are you that paranoid or feel so inadequate with your own means as a man to be able to handle yourself without the firearm? Are you only brave and courageous when you have your unloaded pistol to quell the feeling of inadequacy? Pray do tell how carrying in public, poking the bear with a stick and perhaps giving gun owners the image of some douche bag who doesnt give a shit, really exersizing a pro gun agenda.
You realize that all it will take is someone making a false claim (or could be real for all we know since you already show throughout some of your blogs inadequacy issues) that you brandished your firearm. Weather its true or false, you know in the world of anti-gun Kommiefornia you are guilty until proven innocent. Your little pamphlets are not going to save you from false allegations.
Here is one last question for you, If the mall, bank, or any other private buisness you went into told you not to carry in their store (since all that is private property) would you follow the wishes of those buisnesses? Or would you just blast them on a blog like those security guards and police officers?

Mike Stollenwerk said...

cornefed gunner must be gettin; some moonshine with his corn...anyway, good work, but one question - I know CA statutes (probably unconstitutionally) require you to submit to a check of your handgun in incorpoaterated areas to make sure it is unloaded - but do they require you to go thru thei identification and registration checking protocol?

Registration of guns in CA which were possessed before a certain date a few years ago is optional.

Mike said...

I'm guessing cornfed is a closet gun owner.

If we hide our guns like we're doing something wrong, everybody is going to think that owning a gun IS wrong. If we're open about it and act like the no big deal thing it is, that attitude will help us out.

elsensei said...

cornfed gunner- what a freaking tool you are. just put your head back in the sand, and breathe deep.

JHanson said...

Good job! But you have to keep a digital voice recorder going, check the legality first though. The police can check if your firearm is unloaded but are not supposed to "terry stop" you and run the serial numbers. Did you ask if you were being detained? You did not need to provide ID unless you were suspected of a crime. Also sounds like the mall guards intimidated you into staying. You should have left. If they touched you, you would have had a nice lawsuit. I look forward to reading more of your posts.

Olav said...

Good work. I open carry in my house! That's about it. :)

I was wondering how much handgun training you have in case you might have to actually deploy your weapon in a self defense situation?

TrackerPacker said...

I have enough to be effective but I am not a pro.

SSG David M said...

Way to educate, buddy!

I've yet to have a MWAG call on me...not that I'm looking forward to it...but I am prepared to also educate the local PD in State law. We don't have an enclosed mall in my town, and the main downtown area is in a 1000' zone, but the rest of the downtown is still free to UOC.

Cornfed; how, exactly, is being legal and minding my own business in public antagonizing anyone? If the Police do not know that UOC is fully legal, who's going to tell them? Their Chief, who rolls with whatever his department heads tell him to do? Sacramento, that agrees that UOC is legal, but equates those who carry for personal defense with terrorists?

How about; I guaranteeeeeeee that you have driven your 3 or more ton vehicle of death faster than the posted speed limits numerous times....I bet through school zones too. Civilian cars kill tens of thousands of people every year, through negligence, stupidity, lack of training, lack of caring, lack of sleep, and the lack of sober brain cells. do it anyway.

My carry gun has killed and injured..uhhhhhh....NO ONE. Ted Kennedy can't say the same for his car!

Yes, it's my RIGHT to bear arms. Yes, it's my legal RIGHT to UOC. You do not have the right to a car, or to drive, which makes your every speeding violation a deadly threat to all of society.

You should be ashamed.....

***Army, from CalGuns***

be603 said...

Bravo Zulu.

A freedom not exercised is a freedom lost.

Fridgepants said...

I have a single recommendation: open carry next time solely on public property. The right to bear arms doesn't supersede property rights. Carrying in a store or on private property that doesn't explicitly permit such actions can get you into civil trouble. It's not unreasonable for Payless to file a civil suit against you.

SSG David M said... California State law provides that unloaded open carry of a handgun is legal in all public places...including a Payless store. Public access areas cannot be wholly controlled by the owner of the property. The property owner can ask that you do not carry in his store, post a notice that carry is not allowed, or even ask you to leave. As a civil gun owner, you should comply with the store owners wishes...but there is no statute preventing you from entering a store (or mall) while carrying. As Nathan pointed out, even the Police had to let him continue to carry.