Saturday, February 7, 2009

Del Mar Gun Show, mixed responses

So I went to the Del Mar Gun Show today to buy some ammo, mags and other accessories and while there I open carried my Tracker, sans ammunition so that I didn't commit any felonies while there.

After picking up a nice block of 9x18 Makarov ammo (Miwall bastards didn't tell me there was a $3 charge for using a credit card...), I saw the Cold War Shooters sign and table and decided to pay them a visit. As I approached the table, I noticed that a fellow Calgunner, grammaton76 (crap! don't know your first name!), was working there! After I introduced myself (not a celebrity yet ;) ) we talked about the meeting coming up on the 28th and about the Westfield UTC open carry outing. As it turns out, grammaton76 knows some of the security guys at Westfield UTC had sent them an email via the Westfield UTC comment box on how what we were doing was legal and that there should be no worry. (This explains all the "Westfield Corporation" hits I was receiving shortly aftwerwards :) ) He apologized for not PMing me that tibit of information (forgot to) but I was pretty glad that he sent them that since he has experience with them and I don't!

While we were talking about this topic, I was approached by SD Sheriff R.R. Silva and questioned about my Tracker. Here is how the conversation went (grammaton76, correct me if I am wrong!)

-Excuse me. I know that you are allowed to open carry a gun as long as it is unloaded, but is that unloaded?
-Um, I checked it in at the door and it was cleared so yeah, it is unloaded.
-Well, you could have loaded it after getting into the show
-That would be a felony.
(Sheriff's friend with a little more common sense chimes in) - It is unloaded, there is a ziptag on it.
-OK, have a nice day.

Oh Sheriff Silva, lets look over your thought process, or lack thereof...

1) If I were a person that wanted to carry a gun into a gun show that was loaded, I would probably conceal it and not tell the officers at the door about it.

2) If I were to conceal the gun coming in, why would I expose it while in the show? I didn't even bring a jacket with me and I am using an OWB pancake holster with a decently sized .44mag revolver so there is no way I could have concealed it anyways.

3) Why would there be a GIGANTIC ZIP TIE around the hammer and frame of my gun and a BLUE TAG deeming the gun loaded if it were loaded? It is exposed with NO retention so he could totally see the unloaded indicators.

4) Why harass a guy about his gun maybe being loaded if that guy is talking about doing unloaded open carry?

As one can see, there are several logical hurdles that he had to overcome before he could have even asked the question but he managed to bulldoze (emphasis on "doze") through them in a matter of seconds.

While I understand that cops have a job to do, they put their lives on the line everyday, etc, it still is lame to be confronted as being a criminal when you are obviously doing nothing wrong and there is no real compulsion to engage in yet ANOTHER 12031 unloaded check, especially at a gun show.

PHEW! Well, on with my story.

After buying some .44mag and .44spl, MREs and some Ruger MKII magazines, I had to go to my car to secure the Tracker so I could go back in and pick up the .44mag and spl ammunition (again, trying not to get caught on a felony). On the way out, I stopped by the San Diego County Gun Rights Committee booth to talk with them about, the upcoming open carry meet and other topics of general firearms interest and my stories were well-accepted. I was invited to attend some NRA meeting in the Santee/El Cajon area tonight for a show-and-tell but I declined as I have homework to accomplish (totally sucks, as Chuck Michel is going to be there tonight!). I do hope to attend some of the other functions put on by the San Diego County Gun Rights Committee in the near future.

With that, I am going to email them and get the word about Feb 28th and then bust out some O-Chem. Adios for now and Carry On!




elsensei said...

another one for sheriff silva:

"besides all that sheriff, can you imagine any criminal dumb enough to conceal a weapon with intent to commit a crime at a gun show? I mean come on! Talk about a death wish....jeez...." roll eyes and roll on.

newton said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
newton said...

Hey, grammaton76 (Sean Newton) here. This thing seems not to like letting you edit things... anyway, I realized the guy we were calling Sheriff Silva is probably a Deputy and not the Sheriff of SD county.

BTW, hopefully he's not this Sheriff R. Silva...

WRT UTC... "Knows some of the guys" would be a bit of an overstatement, but I've had dealings with UTC security in the past and was assured that a policy clarification was posted re: my last run-in with them. For those wondering, it had to do with whether or not you can walk in the open-air part of UTC to cool down after a workout, after closing time.

WRT Sheriff Silva, I think he might've initially reacted to the way the tag had sort of tucked into the holster, so it wasn't that visible from the outside. What was so weird to me though, is that I see guys walking around with handguns for sale in holsters all the time, and I've never seen one get stopped. Or a re-enactor, for that matter. Still puzzled on that point.

Now, I think his last line ("you could've loaded it after the check"), said as he was starting to walk away, was just meant as an explaination of why he felt the need to drop in and mention it has to be unloaded.

I personally would've just said, "Would you like to check it again?" and I'm not sure how things would've gone from there.

RedPill619 said...

I will be at the NRA San Diego Members Council meeting this Wednesday and I'll bring up the UOC lunch.

Dr. Paleo Ph.D. said...

Hello there!

I would like to take a quick moment to tell you about something that is very close to my heart. I was hoping that it might be possible for you to help me. Please read this recent post of mine:

If you care about America and our freedom, you will be very concerned.


P.S. And if you find that you agree with the concerns I expressed in my blog post, please blog this yourself, and let's spread the word!

ExistingThing said...

Keep up the good work!

Molonlabe said...

First of all, your post shows your lack of knowledge as Silva is a "Deputy Sheriff", not a Sheriff as you call him. Secondly, you talk about not wanting to commit a crime, but are you aware that it is a crime not to surrender your firearm to a peace officer when asked for the purpose of determining if it's loaded or not? Next time your asked, maybe you won't be such an arrogant prick....

Dr. Paleo Ph.D. said...

Molonlabe: Well we can see where you stand.... And TrackerPacker is the arrogant p***k?

TrackerPacker said...


1) Don't really care if he was a Sheriff or a Deputy Sheriff, both have SHERIFF in the name. Therefore, it is pretty much the same to me and in the end still an LEO. I try not to keep up with the latest naming fads for LEOs, I have enough trouble keeping up with the bullcrap laws they arbitrarily enforce.

2) I did not refuse the Sheriff/Deputy Sheriff (whatever he is) the legal right to inspect my weapon. If he had wanted to check, he would have told me so. In fact, I believe that he was just harassing me because I was vocalizing some of my open carry activities with my friend.

If you have any further concerns, feel free to contact me.



elsensei said...

Criminy, molonlabe...who pissed on your cheerios this morning?

Splitting hairs about "deputy" vs "sheriff"...questioning a guy -who writes a freaking blog about open carry- about whether he is aware of 12031 (look it up)...accusing same person of a "lack of knowledge" while writing "you're" as "your"...I can do this all day.

What a tool.

Oh well. Put my name in the "arrogant prick" column next to TrackerPacker. I suppose that coming from you, it was intended as a compliment.

shikkapow said...

Wow you guys in Kalifornia are truly truly behind enemy lines.
you cant even open carry an unloaded firearm AT A GUN SHOW without getting harassed.
I really need to become a little more proactive so my second amendment rights are not castrated like you have to deal with on the left coast.
keep fighting the good fight.. as much as you can with an unloaded gun.

Dr. Paleo Ph.D. said...

Oh well. Put my name in the "arrogant prick" column next to TrackerPacker. I suppose that coming from you, it was intended as a compliment.

Ooh ooh, can I be one too?

N8: Did I mention that you rocked?